hmmmmmm. 

Yeah, same here. But, it sounds like a good feature for many of the Groups. 

The main idea behind this functionality is to make groups more viable.

When someone new arrives at NT they seem to (naturally) use the Groups as a logical grouping of their articles.   One quickly discovered that the articles produced within a Group never hit the front page and never were seen outside of the group.   This is counter-intuitive and, indeed, goes against the norm.    

With this enhancement, NT groups can serve as general categories of functionality.   So AMac could, for example, host a group on photography which publishes select articles on the home page and thus makes the group known to prospective members.

Plus, groups now have their own flagging systems and the group owner (and group moderators picked by the owner) can moderate the content within their group - especially for articles that have been promoted to the front page.

This sounds like a very good feature. I am the owner of the Cat Adorer Group, which is a Private group. However, I can understand the usefulness for some of areas of this new feature. 

Thanks for all you do for the Members, TiG, and I am honored to be a part of the Beta Team. 

Private groups cannot publish to the front page.   The reason is that nobody could ever comment on the articles and could not easily join the group.   Thus, for now, private groups remain entirely private.

I'm sure it's me … but when I click on "Groups," I don't see the Creative Arts Avatar … how come?

The Beta site has its own data.   None of the data here was copied from the NT production site.   To wit ... this is all fake data.

OK....how can I create a new Group as the owner so that someone can join the group to test the set up for second Moderator? If I am not the owner of a group I can't pick someone else to be second Moderator. 

Not sure I understand.  Creating a new group works the same as always and the creator is the owner.   [ Create a group by clicking your name on the far right.   From your home page (where you will be) click on the Groups tab and then click the + to create a new group. ]  Then when someone joins your group, you can click on the member's avatar (in the member's section of your group) and then click 'Group Moderator' to make that member a moderator.

Thanks for the info TiG. I have never created a group before, I just took over the Cat Adorer Group for Stephi Cantly, who originally set it up and is no longer a member of NT. I will create a new group so I can test how things work in a group.

BTW, I just made you a group moderator for 'Critical Thinking' group.   So if anyone flags a comment on an article from that group, you will see the flag on your Group Moderator console.   Basically, look for an item labeled 'Group Flags' in your personal menu (under Ravenwing on the far right).

I just flagged a new comment by Groucho in your article.   You should see that flag now when you click on 'Group Flags'.

Basically this is what a group moderator would see.   When a flag is made on a group article, the site moderators will not see it - it goes exclusively to the group moderators (including the owner).

OK, thanks TiG. I'll go and take a look at things there as well. 

So far all is working as I think it should. I have created a new group and will go from there with further testing. 

OK...question.....how long does it take for flagged articles to show up on my dropdown list? I flagged two comments for testing and they did not show up for several minutes. Is this normal?

Also, as Moderator, is there a way that the Moderator can be alerted to new flagged comments when they arrive? Perhaps just a simple yellow or red symbol displayed next to their Username for both the Moderator and Second Moderator that an easily be seen. This would save time in handling any new issues as they arrive. When the issue has been handled by either the Moderator or Second Moderator, the alert symbol would disappear from both Usernames. Or perhaps something of that nature. 

Just curious.

how long does it take for flagged articles to show up on my dropdown list?

They should show up right away after you do a Refresh.

Also, as Moderator, is there a way that the Moderator can be alerted to new flagged comments when they arrive?

The GroupFlags menu item includes a count of the number of flags.   But other than that this works like the site moderator's function.  We do not notify the mods on every flag because that would quickly get old.   So the idea is to periodically look at your Group Flags menu item.  If the number of flags has changed then you have something to do.    

Rather than introduce more notifications right now, let's see how this plays out.

Rather than introduce more notifications right now, let's see how this plays out.

In regards to this comment......as I have my received emails forwarded from my online Gmail account to my Windows Mail apps on my computers, I have set the timing for new email checks to 3 minutes. This way I will be alerted by a sound when any new emails are received. Since the NT system sends a new email for each new flagged item to my NT email account, I will be able to receive the notice of each new flagging in a very timely manner and can respond right away.

I keep my email app open all the while I am on the computer, and if I am away from home and the computer is off, the new emails will be downloaded as soon as I sign in to the email app. Hopefully, this will allow a faster response time that depending on simply remembering to check the Group Moderator while on NT. I have already been getting emails for each new moderated comment as it is, so I have simply changed to check time to 3 every mins. 

This may work for me at this point, but, not sure who email notifications might work of other Members in real time if they don't have a computer based email app to forward their on-line emails to, or may not keep their emails open all during the time they are on line NT. 

So I will run with what I have set up at this point and see how it works out. 

Created a new article, in the new Animal Lovers group I created, that is checked to be promoted. So far all has gone well. 

They should show up right away after you do a Refresh.

That did not happen. I refreshed several times and it was not until at least 5 minutes later that I got email notices about the flagged comments, but, they had not shown up before that in the Group Moderator list. 

We do not notify the mods on every flag because that would quickly get old. 

I am sure that showing an alert for every new flag would indeed get old, but, I was thinking that only one alert need be shown when the first flagged comment was posted, no matter how many showed up later. Just to let the Moderator know something is there. This would be helpful if the Moderator has just signed on.

That did not happen. I refreshed several times and it was not until at least 5 minutes later that I got email notices about the flagged comments, but, they had not shown up before that in the Group Moderator list. 

No doubt I will have to go in and fight with the caching system then.   (I hate the cache) 

 (I hate the cache) 

I feel for ya Brother, I really do. It is a royal bane (grin)

In giving this functionality more thought, I can see where being able to see the discussions being in the groups that are promoted to the FP would also act to draw interest by visitors to the site, and hopefully, act as encouragement for them to join the site to be able to participate in the group of interest. 

Since there is so much hateful and political Fight Club atmosphere displayed on the FP, being able to see that there are other areas of much more pleasant and less varicose places to visit and participate on the site could be an incentive to viewers to join. 

Hopefully, that will be at least one more positive of the feature. 

OK...other than the timing of the flagging showing up in the Moderator's list, all else appears to be working nicely here. And I am sure that you will soon have that worked out, TiG. Let me know when that has been corrected and I will test it again. 

TiG....please go into the Critical Thinker group and leave a comment so I can test the timing for the Group Moderator for that group.

Great response timing, well done! (thumbs up)

Now....are there any particular functions of such that you would like to have us test at this point? From what I have tested thus far all appear to be working well. But, if there are any specific testing you need done please let up know.

Here's what I have tested thus far;

Created two new articles - both worked well

Tested the articles for promoted functionality - both worked well

Created a new group, Animnal Lovers - setup worked well

Tested adding new article in new Animal Lovers group - worked well

Tested setting up a Group Moderator with Groucho in Animal Lovers group - worked well

Tested Group Moderator for flagged comments in Critical Thinking group - worked well after your adjustment to timing. Works very well now

Will now see what other areas you wish to be tested going forward. 

I would assume the role of a group owner / moderator.    Generate some flags and then issue tickets (and also accept as is).    It would be helpful if someone else were to participate.

This is a key area of functionality - group moderators will moderate articles promoted from their group (unless overridden by the site moderators).   

It would be helpful if someone else were to participate.

I have tried to do this in both the Critical Thinking group with you and in my own Animal Lovers group, however, besides you, only Groucho has participated in both for me to test as Moderator and Group Moderator. Both times the functionality worked well. However, as you say, it would help a great deal if others would participate to create articles to promote as well as comments so that this area can be fully tested. Without their help, it will be difficult to fully test it. I made Groucho the Group Moderator of my Animal Lovers group so that he can help test there as well, but, he is only on the Beta sparingly I think. Others do no know how valuable their participation is to the testing.  I understand their time may be limited for them to participate, but, even a little bit would be a great help.

Question ........did all the Beta members gt the email about the new beta?  If so, I'll try to encourage them to lend a hand here even for a short time to create some articles and comments, and help test them with us. Their help is invaluable to fully test the new features and their functions.

I think so.   Perrie does all the communication but that was the intent.   

OK, I'll check with Perrie. Thanks.

I got email notices that Buzz and Trout Giggles have signed on to the beta. Perrie is working to get other members of the beta team to step in and lend a hand at this important part of the testing. I'm really looking forward to working with them so that we can do the serious team effort testing that needs to be done. Their input and participation is truly valuable to make sure that all areas of testing can be done. 

Yup.  Trout is a very experienced admin from NV (she ran the Administration Nation and others) so she can give us some advice on how well this might (or might not) work on NT.   Buzz is a very experienced group owner on NT and thus brings a similar perspective but from a different source.

Yes, both of them will be great additions to the testing needed. And they can offer their take on the new functions and features and assist there as well.

I'm following you now on beta testers. If TiG thinks it's the right thing to do, I could do a not so serious article to help with the testing. I'm here to give advice and I need to get my feet wet to determine how I would like to see this new function work.

Right now I'm a little leery of a bunch of tin foil dictators running groups like we on had on News Vine. But I do believe that I will just have to trust that most group moderators are grown-ups.

Great to see you here, Giggles. You can participate on the existing groups, or do like I did, and create your own group to work in as well as others. My group is the Animal Lovers, and you can rate articles and comments there as well as in other groups. But, by creating your own group, you can also see how things will work from the group Moderating aspect.

Whichever way you wish to participate will be a big help. I'm looking forward to working with you. (smile)

Right now I'm a little leery of a bunch of tin foil dictators running groups like we on had on News Vine. But I do believe that I will just have to trust that most group moderators are grown-ups.

Agreed.   However, the big difference between NV and NT is that on NV the admins were given free reign.   On NT the group moderators will be subject to the oversight of the site moderators (major, major difference).   If a group does not act responsibly it may have its ability to promote articles to the front page removed.   It may also have its group moderation ability removed (assumed by the site moderators).  With this new functionality, site moderators can accomplish this with a push of a button. 

No tin horn dictators on NT largely because the philosophies are entirely different.

If TiG thinks it's the right thing to do, I could do a not so serious article to help with the testing.

Sounds great to me.

Hi Raven! I applied to Critical Thinking and your Animal Group. I think I will create a group just for tinkering and to help with the beta testing. TiG asked me to play more of an advisory role than actual bug testing I guess because of my vast wealth of experience I bring from NV. LOL!

It will be great to work with you

I will do just that. I will create a group (not today) and do some tinkering and see how this works. Thanks for asking me to do this, TiG.

Thanks Giggles. I will approve you joining. We also need some members to create some articles and comments to add to the testing of the different functions. Hopefully, a few more members will step in to help in that regard. 

I am happy to have your advisory input, that will be an added assist as well. Your area of expertise will be a big help. (thumbs up) 

I created a group and published an article to see how this group moderator thingy works. The group is called "Sh*t In My Head" and my piece is about vomiting (something I thought of this morning)

Great! That will give us another group to test in. Thanks! 

TiG....I have been testing the Group Moderator function in the Critical Thinkers group with your and Groucho's comments, and the Moderator's function with Groucho's comment in the Animal Lovers group. I have tested them several times and they appear to be working well. 

I still need to test the Promoted function with articles, yet, there are none being created in either group other than myself, and that does not work. I am in hopes that we can get a few more testers to come in and create these types of test scenarios so that we can better test that area of the functionality.

It's going to be hard to fully test the overall functionality of the beta without more testers to help out. I am hoping that at least two more testers will show up soon and provide the necessary assistance needed in those areas. Without that assistance much needed assistance it will be difficult to to ensure that all functionality is working as it should. Ican only test what there is to test with.

I will add some content tomorrow if nobody else shows up to do so.   I totally understand your point.

Thanks TiG.

Buzz is now here.  It will take me a bit to get involved because I'm technologically disadvantaged, and when new procedures are added it takes me a bit to unravel the mystery of them, but eventually I'll develop a modicum of competency.  I've been begging for years for something to be done to make the groups more attractive to members, and in frustration have after going to the trouble of creating them, seen interest wane to the extent that I was the only one involved, so I deleted those groups because I didn't have the encouragement to keep them active, and was just wasting my time.  After all, if I was the only person indicating any interest whatsoever in an article I would post, then what was the purpose of posting it?

I still think that there should be a public Front Page announcement educating members to adjust their settings on their personal page, in particular to accepting group messages.  That is the best way for group administrators to keep the group members informed, involved and active.

Buzz...very glad to see you here to help out.  One of the things that I mentioned else thread with TiG, is that by having some of the better and/or more interesting articles/seeds posted in a group available to be seen on the FP would also perhaps provide viewer interest in wanting to join the site. Being able to see the kind of different discussions that's happening in the groups compared to the political Fight Club antics on the FP would perhaps be of interest to some viewers and encourage them to join to participate in the groups they find most interesting. 

Perhaps just one more incentive for viewers to join the site. 

Oh, one point. I'm not so sure about trusting others to:

Edit or redirect a comment or article. Ticket a comment (or an entire article) as a violation of policy.

I think those should be limited to the discretion of the group administrator.

I think those should be limited to the discretion of the group administrator.

That is easily accomplished.   The group owner simply does not empower any members to be group moderators.   By doing nothing, the grown owner is the sole moderator for the group.

And if, over time, the group owner finds a member s/he can trust to share the load - in one click that member can become a group moderator.

And if, over time, the group owner finds a member s/he can trust to share the load - in one click that member can become a group moderator.

And I think that is a very good feature. While the role of Group Moderator can't be given to just anyone in the group, and diligence must be shown in finding someone who will be an active Member so they would be participating on an active basis to keep an eye on what is going on in a timely manner. Also, it would be helpful if it were someone who was on a different time zone so that they could check on the group in the off time the group Moderator was not available.

I think these are things that the group Moderator should keep in mind when looking for a Group Moderator. It may not always be possible, but, it is something to think about.

If a group owner designates a group moderator and that mod does not work out, the group owner simply unchecks to reverse the decision.

It's good that it is easy to remedy if a Group Moderator does not work out, or can no longer take the time to moderate. 

"Also, it would be helpful if it were someone who was on a different time zone so that they could check on the group in the off time the group Moderator was not available."

LOL. Except for Shona (Australia) and me, almost EVERYONE is in a different time zone.

In thinking about the Promote function a bit more, I am wondering how much more busyness Promoting articles/seeds from groups will add to the FP. Even with limiting those who will be able to do this there could be a possible flood of additional articles/seeds displayed on the FP than are already being displayed there, and those who are permitted to Promote their articles/seeds with no limitations could create havoc on the FP with Promoting numerous postings. I can think of one member who is now limited to only two articles/seeds a day who would likely take excessive advantage of their ability to Promote endless articles/seeds a day if no limitations are set. Even though the comments would not be seen, nor comments allowed from the FP, just the number of Promoted postings alone could be a problem. 

This may fall under the duty of the Moderators of the group to reign in those who over Promote, but, I am wondering about those who are themselves the Moderators and would perhaps take advantage of their right to Promote their own postings. 

Perhaps there should be some form of limitations set for how many each member can Promote each day, as if the Moderator and Group Moderator are not able to be available 24/7, some members may be able to Promote several articles/seeds during their absence. 

This is just something that came to mind and I am simply tossing it out there for thought.

Very good questions. This may be one of those things that have to be played by ear and then restrictions set on those who abuse it

The system is set up to handle that.   The site moderators have the ability to remove promotion ability from any group that abuses it.  Thus the group owners should be motivated to keep things responsible.  Also, the site moderators can also, at their option, assume flagging control for a group.   Same deal, the idea is to have responsible group moderators but the site moderators have oversight and will step in if they need to do so.

Same deal, the idea is to have responsible group moderators

What kind of controls can a group moderator have other than to remove a member's right to Promote? And it is good that the site moderators will have the ability to control the abuse of the Promote function of any group. While I don't think such abuse will be a broad problem, however, there are a few here on NT who would likely take advantage of their ability to Promote their own postings as owner of a group, especially, those who have multiple groups. So, it is good that site moderators will have the ultimate control. 

What kind of controls can a group moderator have other than to remove a member's right to Promote?

There is a group owner who is the uber mensch for the group.   Each member could be a group moderator at the discretion of the group owner.

Currently the platform allows a group owner to delete comments and to remove members from the group.   That has not changed.   But this new functionality gives the owner the ability to designate group mods and to grant individual members the right to promote their articles to the front page.   The group owner can also shut down all promotions in his/her group with a click of a button.

How do I join groups here on the Beta? I am not seeing any way to join. What am I missing?

Go to a group and look on the upper right corner.  What you should see is a button that reads 'Join Group'.   Works the same way on NT.

I am not seeing any button of that kind on my end. I can post a comment to any of them, and even create a discussion, but, there is no button that says Join Group anywhere.

This is all I see, there is no Join Group button. I've also checked this in all 3 of my browsers and get the same results.

Also, I am seeing Moderator at the top of the dropdown under my username even when I am not in my own group. Is this normal for the beta?

Oh, I know.   That is because I made you a site moderator for the new moderator console Beta.

I will move you back to normal user and this will all make sense.  Sorry, forgot all about that.

That's OK. I was just curious as to why. If you need me to sty in that position to help out as of now that is fine.

OK...here is what I have further tested;

Animal Lovers group -

Edited an article that had Promote box checked and article appeared on the FP.

Unchecked the Promote box and article disappeared from FP.

Re-edited the article and checked the Promote box and the article reappeared on the FP.

Critical Thinker group - 

Edited my article that had the Promote box checked and article appeared on the FP.

Unchecked the Promote box and article disappeared from FP.

Re-edited the article and checked the Promote box and the article reappeared on the FP.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All functions worked well.

TiG....are there any other areas of testing that you would like to have tested or further testing on at this time?

If you have gone through the functions outlined in the Guide then really the only thing left would be trying to find things I overlooked.   Realistically what would be appropriate now is to have a bunch of group owners come in here and bang away.   Short of that happening I suspect our final phase of testing will be as always - live on NT.

Thanks, Raven.

You're very welcome. One thing still missing for me is the Join Group button. While I can post comments and articles in any of the Groups, but, I can't join them. ?  ??

I agree that we need to get a good many team members here to spend a few minutes of their time to provide a slew of comments and articles, as well as create groups and assign Group Moderators. That way we can really put the system through the important paces. 

I'll see if I can round up a few more members to help with that effort. 

I reset your account to standard user yesterday.   There is no explanation I can offer as to why you would not see the Join Group / Leave Group button on the upper right corner of the Group box when you go to a group's page.   Groucho and Harpo see it so I do not know what to say.

A-OK....that did the trick. I new see the Join Group tab when I open a Group. Not sure either why it was not there before either, unless it had something to do with you first setting me up as a Moderator. But, maybe that wasn't the issue. 

Anyway, I see it there now and can join the Groups so I can help out there as a Member.

Thank you!

I and others have now provided comments in the various Groups so that the Group owners and Group Moderators can begin to test their own functionality in their groups. Including control of the Promote function, flagging assessments and control, and how to determine which kind of Ticket to assess the flagged comments or Articles.

All we need now are the Groups owners and Group Moderators to test their controls in their Groups.

Something I have noticed....a few of the articles with comments show no flags for any of the comments. Some show only a few flags and but others have no flags at all. I am not talking about the ones grayed out, I'm talking about the red flags. And they are not my comments. 

The article about the Ozone is one. There are no flags there at all on any of the three comments there. This is what I am seeing in the Ozone article with no flags showing for the comments;

I think that when some articles are showing no flags, or sparse flags, it will be confusing for the Members, especially if one of the Members thinks the comment should be really flagged.It could be a cache issue, but, maybe not.

Flags expire.   Older comments (comments from prior months) cannot be flagged so no flags will show.   This is a Newstalkers' site rule.

Ahhh....OK...thanks for the clarification. That makes sense. 

TiG...I am not sure what else I can do here. I have tested all the functions multiple times, gone through all the steps and checked all the functions for bugs and oversights that I can think of in all areas. All appears to be working as it should at this point. I am unable to verify the Group admin and Group Moderator controls other than my own Group.

I have provided comments and flagging in other the Groups so that the Group admins can test the functions for their own Groups. 

Is there anything else that you would like to have tested that I can assist with? 

Thanks for all you have done Raven!   You are the best.

You are very welcome, TiG. It is always my pleasure to help with the Betas. For Beta Techie's like me, it's always fun and educational to be able to help. It also gives me the opportunity to learn ways to assist other NT Members in getting up to speed with the new functions and features.  

As always, I'm just a PN away anytime you need help, beta or otherwise. (smile)

OK.....where is the new Beta function? I'm ready to roll!

All you have to do is reply to a comment and you will see it.

Reply to a comment in the middle of the comment stream.

Testing reference to @13.2.1 and @1.1 and @11.1 and @4.1.2 (does not exist)